Tommygun FE vs Tommygun SE

[Marco]

Well ''apparently'' is right,it is just your impression as the M1-A2 Thompson inflicts 10 damage (at normal difficulty) in both the first and the second encounter,it is just the same gun.
(http://serioussam.wikia.com/wiki/M1A2_Thompson) check this out

Attachment 6189

That may be right. Whatever the case though, it's easier to frag with the tommy in TFE,
while minigun feels similar in both games.

Probably small aim assist, different hitboxes, etc. No idea.

Different engine most likely

Yy, it is the Engine... from what I know - it has to do something with ticks).. and maybe hitboxes too!) we will never know, but at least it made the existence of a minigun not useless (not that in FE it is useless, but it is mostly not used)

...
Anyway friends I think it was enough Off-Topic for here)

Not diffrent engine, the sam code was edited..
In fe the CalcJitterTarget for tommygun was less than minigun, so tommy was more precise at longer distance.
In tse CalcJitterTarget is bigger for tommy so it is less precise now at bigger distance(It's like almost same for minigun).

Well, ok, according to these posts, I think we can discuss about tommygun (and minigun) here.

Now, we know tommygun and minigun do the same damage. I post directly from the source code, even if I have SE sdk only:

FireTommyGun() {
// fire one bullet
if (m_iBullets>0) {
FireMachineBullet(wpn_fFX[WEAPON_TOMMYGUN], wpn_fFY[WEAPON_TOMMYGUN],
500.0f, 10.0f

Where 10.0f is the damage amount per hit.

And this is minigun:

// fire a bullet
FireMachineBullet(wpn_fFX[WEAPON_MINIGUN], wpn_fFY[WEAPON_MINIGUN],
750.0f, 10.0f

But there is a difference in rate of fire (I didn't understand if it is that 500.0f and 750.0f, yet) that makes minigun appear stronger than tommygun.

In FE both weapons are built a bit differently.

I always thought that minigun was useless in FE deathmatch since the fact its chain has to start spinning before shooting. And I think it is slower than SE.

Whereas tommygun is ready to open fire. That's why I always thought minigun is useless (and no one of skilled players collects it; only Zdzichu did it last year against Eclipse) in Desert Temple. Merge this with an open-field map like that and you obtain the result.

BUT!!! But... Zdzichu told us about "CalcJitterTarget". The problem is I have found only this function called or quoted, near the voices "bullet" or "FLOAT"...

But I haven't found the values related to the guns near tommygun/minigun sections (for now).

I now have checked "PlayerWeapon.es" and "Bullet.es" only.


And, about SE, on the 13 original maps (8 + GoldDM maps), this is the situation:

Little Trouble: tommygun;
Fortress: minigun;
Hole: minigun;
Compound: minigun;
Red Station: minigun;
Docking Bay: no tommygun nor minigun;
Go Hunting! (aka ShootME): no tommygun nor minigun;
Lefty: no tommygun, nor minigun;
Ra-Spah-Shoy: no tommygun nor minigun;
Sun Palace: no tommygun nor minigun;
The Lost Tomb: minigun;
We Got Skull n' Bones Too: both tommygun and minigun;
Yodeller: minigun.

Excluding GoldDM maps (that don't have any machineguns), 7 maps out of 8 have minigun, and only 2 ones have tommygun.

"We Got Skull n' Bones Too" is the only map where both machineguns are present (and it is a bit similar to Desert Temple's design).

This clearly means that Croteam's goal was to set major priority to minigun (obvious, since gun's design and power impose it) more than tommygun. Plus, Little Trouble's design is a lot different than Desert Temple's one (and also this is referred to less possibility of rocket-avoiding while using tommygun, too).

[Zdzichu]

BUT!!! But... Zdzichu told us about "CalcJitterTarget". The problem is I have found only this function called or quoted, near the voices "bullet" or "FLOAT"..

Just used example of ghostbuster, because beam is just visual thingy, gb is like much more powerfull minigun:

// fire lerped bullets
PrepareBullet(plSource);
((CBullet&)*penBullet).CalcTarget(HIT_DISTANCE);
((CBullet&)*penBullet).m_fBulletSize = 0.5f;
((CBullet&)*penBullet).CalcJitterTarget(0.00f*HIT_ DISTANCE) (Here u can set bullet precise);
((CBullet&)*penBullet).LaunchBullet(FALSE, FALSE, FALSE);
((CBullet&)*penBullet).DestroyBullet();
};

// destroy yourself
void DestroyGhostBusterRay(void) {
Destroy();
};

You can try finding things bout jitter in playerweapons.es (find // prepare bullet) but im not sure coz im not expert in sam's code.

[Supersniper98]

Well, ok, according to these posts, I think we can discuss about tommygun (and minigun) here.

For me, in SE there is difference between weapons in frag and weapons in coop, as they appear to be less powerful in frag mode (i am not sure about all of them, some are maybe even stronger - like Double Barrel, but some are surely weaker, like sniper... you can test playing Frag-Coop and find out) ... so far in FE i have tested and that difference doesn't exist that much)

I have also found difference in FE, where small bursts are stronger than actual fire... that applied to laser and tommygun... i was shooting some guys on XENOX with tommygun, and with small bursts he flew away really fast... for minigun i think it is the same because there is delay before starting of fire. It's possible to be the same for tommygun too... i dont know... it just gives a different feeling ... for laser ... - transporting AFK XENOX players had to be done fast so what better way than from above the map? (well if you play coop that is) ... so i had to find a fast way to do this... and realized that firing in bursts laser was much faster than without... (i don't know where the hell is logic in this)... cannon was also not an option becoz in Sam's Space there appears to be too much friction!!)))

So anyway) what us coop players notice most about minigun is its ability to shoot in much longer range than any other bullet weapon in the game) while tommygun stops firing at a certain distance, the minigun continues to fire at at least 200 m above it.. or even more

P.S.: Sorry if that was a little off-topic too btw)

[Jockant]

Nice to know!

So I guess it's possible to make a macro or whatever, that auto-shoots laser faster than normally too haha

[Supersniper98]

Nice to know!

So I guess it's possible to make a macro or whatever, that auto-shoots laser faster than normally too haha

no cheats were used during these tests except infinite life... lol... its better without it
Welll.... i cannot say nothing about SE XENOX sadly, simply because i haven't played with other people there and shoot them) people don't know the XENOX map there very well... but also servers with preset 99999999 hp don't exist) (in FE i know 2) so i hope that someone will make one

[Salker90]

For me, in SE there is difference between weapons in frag and weapons in coop, as they appear to be less powerful in frag mode (i am not sure about all of them, some are maybe even stronger - like Double Barrel, but some are surely weaker, like sniper... you can test playing Frag-Coop and find out) ... so far in FE i have tested and that difference doesn't exist that much)

I have also found difference in FE, where small bursts are stronger than actual fire... that applied to laser and tommygun... i was shooting some guys on XENOX with tommygun, and with small bursts he flew away really fast... for minigun i think it is the same because there is delay before starting of fire. It's possible to be the same for tommygun too... i dont know... it just gives a different feeling ... for laser ... - transporting AFK XENOX players had to be done fast so what better way than from above the map? (well if you play coop that is) ... so i had to find a fast way to do this... and realized that firing in bursts laser was much faster than without... (i don't know where the hell is logic in this)... cannon was also not an option becoz in Sam's Space there appears to be too much friction!!)))

So anyway) what us coop players notice most about minigun is its ability to shoot in much longer range than any other bullet weapon in the game) while tommygun stops firing at a certain distance, the minigun continues to fire at at least 200 m above it.. or even more

P.S.: Sorry if that was a little off-topic too btw)

I think the main difference (talking about weapons power in DM and CO-OP) is that maybe they makes different amount of damage to enemies,i guess some of them have more than a normal player HP,so that would make sense.Weapons feels more powerful if you test them on equal HP's players than on different enemies which have obviously different HP's.
Also damage strongly depends from difficulty,the difference is infact the damage itself related to target,the power of the weapon is always the same.

@Jockant: In Serious Sam HD setting the mouse wheel as fire button makes the Laser shoot much faster than normal (Total enigma used it lol),dunno if it works on classic too.

[Supersniper98]

I think the main difference (talking about weapons power in DM and CO-OP) is that maybe they makes different amount of damage to enemies,i guess some of them have more than a normal player HP,so that would make sense.Weapons feels more powerful if you test them on equal HP's players than on different enemies which have obviously different HP's.
Also damage strongly depends from difficulty,the difference is infact the damage itself related to target,the power of the weapon is always the same.

@Jockant: In Serious Sam HD setting the mouse wheel as fire button makes the Laser shoot much faster than normal (Total enigma used it lol),dunno if it works on classic too.

By difference in power i wanted to say about SE, where there is clearly massive difference between Coop and Frag mode(in FE not!)... it seems they decided to make it more balanced.. and dropped the weapon power quite a bit!) you can test this by going on Sierra de Chiapas XENOX and then starting to shoot at enemies from coop) some enemies that get splashed in coop, here just get thrown away! some enemies that get killed by 1 shot need 3 in frag mode... you could already tell the difference by going to coop and shoot a player with 200/200... he will die instantly) in Frag however, as you see the player needs 4 hits or more in order to die (i talk about sniper of course, because it is perfect example for this big difference... but others exist too i believe) ... The difficulty don't matter in sniper strength in Coop, but in frag yes, so that is why probably this difference exist in first place! That is what i wanted to say

P.S.: Mouse-Wheel bug??? hahahhaa CROTEAM is lazy to fix bugs from the past so it is very possible that this bug exists here too))