Wallhack or not?

[Bloodnowsky]

Since I won Meta aka Skyward on Fortress map, he started to accusing me for WH

Here's demo if anyone is interested and post your opinion
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ja4g79

[Skyward]

Keep in mind that the demo has to be analyzed with wallhack on, so anyone's opinion based on a simple observation without wallhack will be irrelevant.

[Zeo]

I've watched (without wallhack, honestly) the demo until the moment (00.01.12) when Meta respawned in the wrong place (it started to be unsynchronised).
Bloodnowsky's action looked for me as an action of a typical good Fortress player, he knew that Meta was staying in this lava room (it wasn't hard to guess), then he lost Meta but still guessed he's somewhere there, tried to leave a grenade to the elevator & rocket launcher place (I'd do the same in this case), and then killed him by a totally normal kill near that exit from the lava room, near the shotgun place.

Don't know what was going on later though, but I really wonder that something unique... Sorry Donovan. This guy was playing Fortress a lot, for all these years, he perfectly feels the map (just like me in TLT - the sound of respawning and taking items is enough to know where's an enemy for a next couple of seconds), and for you (as I remember - judging by demos) Fortress never was a favourite map - that explains why you've started to suspect him.

[Marco]

Since I won Meta aka Skyward on Fortress map, he started to accusing me for WH

Here's demo if anyone is interested and post your opinion
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ja4g79

Aeehm.... Can't watch the demo, it looks like corrupted: players always fall into the lava after a few minutes. Besides, they move randomly, too.

Started playing demo: Demos\Demo0054.dem
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r blew ^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r poured lead into ^o^cff8000^b^f9Sa7oMnA^r
^o^cff8000^b^f9Sa7oMnA^r left
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r poured lead into ^oGracz1^r
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r blew ^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^oGracz1^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r was squashed
^oGracz1^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^oGracz1^r left
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r blew himself away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^f3^c252525.^f1^c202020:^f2^c1d1d1d:^F^c1a1a1a] ^ca40000N^c880000a^c790000p^c750000aL^c6c0000m ^c1a1a1a[^f2^c1d1d1d:^f1^c202020:^f3^c252525. ^f4 ^c1a1a1a~^F ^ca40000C^c880000o^c790000o^c750000L^c1a1a1a:^c6c0 000g^c5b0000U^c530000y^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
Cannot load player model:
ModelsMP\Player\SeriousSam.amc (31) : Cannot open file `C:\PROGRA~1\Croteam\SERIOU~1\Models\Player\KoA.am c' (No such file or directory) ()
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r passed away
^o^i^cd5fcffS ^cd7fcffk ^cddfdffy ^ce1feffw ^ce6feffa ^ceafeffr ^cf0feffd ^c44abab-^c46afaf)^c47b3b3C^c49b7b7a^c4bbbbbm^c50c8c8p^c4dc 1c1e^c4bbbbbr^c48b5b5s^c41a3a3(-^r left
stopping game.

However, as I see, there are Satomna and Gracz1 ingame; so, I imagine it was in Survival of the Sickest server after I left the game.

If somebody has problems in watching demo, like me, there is always the stats page of this forum, in order to check players' profiles in World Ranking (with their demos).

EDIT: If you don't find players' profiles, don't worry: go to server section (in stats page, of course).

[Freigeist]

@marco it'a well-known bug. it happens from time to time that demos become corrupted. that's why all recorded demos on amsterdam are spilt into 3-min-parts. what you've posted there is just the log of the game which basically is saying "player A killed player B", "player B left" etc. just with all hex-codes that players use to colorize their nicknames.

edit:

Keep in mind that the demo has to be analyzed with wallhack on, so anyone's opinion based on a simple observation without wallhack will be irrelevant.

i disagree with you, because you can see how the player reacts to movement behind a wall, since you are able to watch the view of both players simultaneously.

--

i watched the full demo (except for that part which got corrupted) and i got to admit there are a few suspicious moment especially the last frag but which good player doesn't have these? i think i don't need to mention that prediction and spam a very essential part of this game. in my opinion most of the frags can be explained easily, the rest might just be luck or coincidence, however, to be concise: i don't think he used WH.

[Marco]

Keep in mind that the demo has to be analyzed with wallhack on, so anyone's opinion based on a simple observation without wallhack will be irrelevant.

That's not true at all. You don't need to install WallHack, CheatEngine and all that shit to understand if anybody uses it, as long as you have enough experience to see if a player is watching behind the walls, even if it is "just" a demo. I'm not intended to be a teacher. And I'll admit: I watched Black Spirit's videos (he showed gameplay with WH on and off) when he opened a thread here about Pure Own cheating in Little (or Shotty) trouble. But it's been one or two years since I read that thread. It was after that I carefully watched demos of banned wallhackers (downloading them from stats page).

However, the need to use wallhack in demo to bust a cheater could be an option if the top guy is particularly sly and able to play unsuspectingly... but I don't think so.

I've watched (without wallhack, honestly) the demo until the moment (00.01.12) when Meta respawned in the wrong place (it started to be unsynchronised).
Bloodnowsky's action looked for me as an action of a typical good Fortress player, he knew that Meta was staying in this lava room (it wasn't hard to guess), then he lost Meta but still guessed he's somewhere there, tried to leave a grenade to the elevator & rocket launcher place (I'd do the same in this case), and then killed him by a totally normal kill near that exit from the lava room, near the shotgun place.

Don't know what was going on later though, but I really wonder that something unique... Sorry Donovan. This guy was playing Fortress a lot, for all these years, he perfectly feels the map (just like me in TLT - the sound of respawning and taking items is enough to know where's an enemy for a next couple of seconds), and for you (as I remember - judging by demos) Fortress never was a favourite map - that explains why you've started to suspect him.

It was quite obvious that CooLgUy should have spammed grenades inside there, since he didn't see Skyward escaping from anywhere (if he did it, he would have appeared at the left or right bridge from the bottom, or at the elevator; but, in the last case, he was surely heard by his opponent). So, he was there. When he came out he tripped on a grenade.

@marco it'a well-known bug. it happens from time to time that demos become corrupted. that's why all recorded demos on amsterdam are spilt into 3-min-parts. what you've posted there is just the log of the game which basically is saying "player A killed player B", "player B left" etc. just with all hex-codes that players use to colorize their nicknames.

edit:



i disagree with you, because you can see how the player reacts to movement behind a wall, since you are able to watch the view of both players simultaneously.

--

i watched the full demo (except for that part which got corrupted) and i got to admit there are a few suspicious moment especially the last frag but which good player doesn't have these? i think i don't need to mention that prediction and spam a very essential part of this game. in my opinion most of the frags can be explained easily, the rest might just be luck or coincidence, however, to be concise: i don't think he used WH.

sic,

I posted the log in order to evidence all that times in which the two words "passed away" appear during demo. If each other watches it, he/she will see that.

I thought about a bug, but this is the first time I find a corrupt demo. If it happens randomly, due to this bug, this time it happened. The demo is corrupted from 42A'dam too: in fact, when I downloaded the demo from stats page, there was still a corrupted part, which is number 22.



Ok, I watched the demo from stats page. Part 22 is corrupted. About game in general, Bloodnowsky surely played better and controlled the map well. He has experience, as I see, and he simply followed his opponent by sighting and hearing him/them (remember that there were 2 more players before).
The only one suspicious moment could be at part 23, when he shoots at walls:


.

But it isn't enough to proof wallhack use. For me it's no.

[Petar]

Good evening! I've watching demos right now, most parts are unsyncronized. I can't be 100% sure, but.... I saw some actions and frags, looks normally and predictable gameplay by Renato ( aka Cool guys). Like Zeo sayd , he is very expierence in this map. Also in last part you are 1 vs 1 guys, and you will search only your current oponent. Sorry Meta ( I'm very respect you, like player,specalist and person!), but my opinion Renato is clear. Let's wait some others experience players what thinking about that.

[Jack.O]

he shoot a bit left cuz he expect jump from sniper rifle to grenades. this is default jump: jump on cannon-side is useless cuz cannon is OFF on 1v1 games thats why so many players jump to grenades. so renato just expect this BUT how u can see on screenshot - thats a completely wrong timing.
thats all

[Capricornus]

Use dem_fRealTimeFactor command to avoid corrupt moments in demos

[Marco]

he shoot a bit left cuz he expect jump from sniper rifle to grenades. this is default jump: jump on cannon-side is useless cuz cannon is OFF on 1v1 games thats why so many players jump to grenades. so renato just expect this BUT how u can see on screenshot - thats a completely wrong timing.
thats all

This was on Survival of the Sickest, so cannon was ON.

But I thought about what you said, and I agree by the fact that a rocket shot on there could change your trajectory (if you are jumping from there; no matter if left or right); and, in serious difficulty, he would have got an upper damage amount from the collateral splash damage.

Use dem_fRealTimeFactor command to avoid corrupt moments in demos

Its function is not properly for 'avoiding' corrupted demos (if a demo is entirely corrupted, like GZ Clan Tournament 2007 uploaded by Zeo, it is useless), it sets the speed of the demo, like a video recorder.

If set at 2 or higher, demo will fast-forward at the selected speed (2x for 2, 3x for 3, etc...).

If set at 1, normal speed.

If set at 0, demo will 'pause', like a screenshot.


I'm writing this, not only to correct you, but to correct other users who wrote in other threads that this command fixes corrupted demos.